Question 7

[Pastor Michelle]

Jesus is present, living in us, even today. Have you ever felt that your faith in Jesus Christ seems threatening to those around you, much like Jesus’ presence threatened Herod? Do you ever think Jesus’ presence in you threatens your own desires and way of life?

[Pastor Michelle]

Sometimes I wonder if when I tell people I'm a pastor they wont want to be open with me about life and will guard their conversation for fear of mentioning something I wouldn't approve of... When in reality I just want to be treated like a regular person.
I think Jesus' presence in my life is always a threat to what I want - because what I want isn't always what Jesus wants and I have committed to letting Him take control. Just like Herod, we can all get caught in our own power struggle with Jesus which can make it really hard to surrender all of our lives to him. I think I'm constantly surrendering again and again.

[nitrorichfire]

Not really, I express my feelings in hopes it will lead others to GOD, if people don't like me for that, it is what it is. Besides with JESUS on your side, you have nothing to fear. Like my father use to say "Fear knocked at the door, Faith answered, and there was nobody there!" Hmmm, in Matthew 10:28 he tells us "Do not fear those who can kill the body, but rather fear GOD, who is able to destroy both the body and the soul."

[Pastor Michelle]

Nitrorichfire - I love your take on this question. It is true that with God we have nothing to fear. I hadn't thought of it this way. Perhaps one could ask two different questions: Are there people in the world who can feel threatened by our faith? which is a different answer perhaps then, do we allow that to effect us in any way.

[nitrorichfire]

Hmmm, Pastor Michelle I don't see our Faith in JESUS as a threat. We are suppose to let the Love of Christ shine through us for others to see, so others may following us to Christ. So we should not be mean spirited, or thinking we are better than others. We should be Loving, caring, kind, understanding, humble and not judgmental towards others. 1st John 4:8-9 tells us to Love others. I certainly hope others around me don't feel I am a threat by believing in GOD, but who knows? I've never thought of it like that.

[Pastor Michelle]

ah, I see where we are looking at it differently... I'm thinking that the idea that Jesus rules our lives and that Jesus will bring about change is what threatens people - we can be nice and humble and caring and loving - and some people will still feel we are a threat to their own world because they dont want anything to change in their little world. I certainly hope that we are living in love and not hate - but that doesn't always mean that people arent threatened by our love and grace.

[csobell]

I suppose if I really believed Jesus was after my job - I'd be threatened, but Jesus met me where I was - and I didn't go from zero to St. Paul in 6 seconds flat - he walks with me at my pace - I know I make him sigh deeply every day - but I try to remember how patient he is with me and I'd rather have people ask me how I can be so calm in a storm, than to threaten them if they don't get to church every time the door opens, memorize scripture, tithe, protest for prayer in school. Judgement is beyond my pay grade and I've come to believe that Jesus won't love me any more even if I don't get any better. That's the Jesus that I'm happy to share with people around me - He knew about every one of my sins and he died for me - and all he asked was that I love people the way I love myself. As I let him show me that love it became so much easier to want to read the bible, to want to give, and to trust that even if all I can do is draw alongside and cry ( or laugh) with you, He's in me and he'll do the heavy lifting. I know there are bad people and life ain't for sissies - I only know what works for me - none of us is going to get out alive, but He is sufficient - not always what I or anybody wants to hear, but if what threatens someone is that they can't accept that God Reigns and know exactly what he's doing - always and in everything, then we gotta resort to the big guns and pray like crazy and leave it up to Him.

[Pastor Michelle]

Chris - I like that Jesus in your life doesn't threaten you because he met you where you are at. Maybe that applies to your last statement too. In the sense that maybe people who do feel threatened by the prospect of accepting God's Reign in their life haven't been willing to let God meet them where they are at. And yes, we gotta pray like crazy

[csobell]

It'll be interesting to find out why people don't want to be part of a church family - whether they feel threatened or it's because we "create" him to be more threatening. I'm not sure if they are threatened or just bewildered that the Jesus that the "churched" are talking about doesn't seem to be the same as what the bible describes. The bible doesn't say it but I kinda get the impression that the Pharisees and Saducees liked to have folks believe that God really wanted to break all our legs - but that they (the Pharisees and Saducees) were holding him back...sometimes I wonder if that isn't true of some of us....

[pmerrill]

I believe Jesus presents different levels/stages of threat for us as sinners when inspired by God, thru the Holy Spirt. A young Christian has alot questions and feel insecure or bewildered by the word of God. This is a time when the devil will make us question alot and weaken our walk in faith. Some of us will continue to grow and others will become stale and some will turn from God forever.

As we become more mature, we are threatened by the expectations of Jesus, in that we m
ust be strong in our presentation, knowledge and life examples for others to follow. Sometimes those expectations make it difficult to shake off the world's influence, thus creating chaos in our spiritual life. But as we grow in the word and establish a personal relationship with Jesus, we become less threatened by the expectations of Jesus, knowing that he has control and with the help of the Holy Spirt we will be ok.

Then the ultimate maturity, giving our lives for Him.

[kingdomseeker]

Many atheists I have been blessed to dialogue with view Jesus as a threat because they will lose their autonomy. Jesus requires us to turn over everything to Him including our very self. While it is true that Jesus is loving it is also true that He is demanding. He speaks of people being condemned if they don’t believe in Him, (Mark 16:16, John 3:18) He practically condemns the Sadducee’s and Pharisee’s (Matthew 23:33), He says it is better for a mill stone to be tied around the neck of one who leads little ones astray and be cast in the sea. (Luke 17:2) Elsewhere Jesus confronts the leaders of Jerusalem with extremely strong warnings. (Matthew 23:13-37) Unfortunately it is this demanding Jesus that the unbelievers look at. (Christopher Hitchens book God is not Great --- How religion poisons everything) is a prime example of this type of rhetoric. At bottom it is our broken will that keeps us from Jesus. If it weren’t for the gift of the Holy Spirit we would still have our backs turned away from God.

[csobell]

I really struggle with the concept of a demanding Jesus - how do we reconcile that with Mathew 11:30 - My Yoke is easy and my burden is light? I know many, many christians have sacrificed so much and have been hurt, tortured and killed for their faith. to be honest I'm not sure I couls muster the strength to bear any of that, but then I wonder about Paul's Joy at the privilege of suffering for Jesus - what if he really meant that - not just euphemistically - but really found joy - and because the strength and will to endure was gifted to him when he needed it. It just ties with the concept that Jesus is sufficient in all things. I really get hope from that theme because I don't have to worry about what he may ask of me because he'll provide when I need it. Throughout my life I can look back and see that he has been there and provided the strength I've needed to get through trouble - no reward or cudos - but enough...and I think that to an outsider or a Christ-wonderer that promise and hope could be inviting. I just wonder if we, as christians, aren't "creating" the threat instead of offering a hand

[kingdomseeker]

Great insights!!

Until we by the power of the Holy Spirit allow Jesus on the throne of our souls we cannot understand Matthew 11:30 correctly. Jesus’ burden is light and His yoke easy only when we look at life through the eyes of Christ. It isn’t until Christ is the center of our lives that we can go through pain and suffering and still have the Peace that passes understanding. Think of the martyrs who were tortured and put to death in Rome before Christianity became the state religion or about the martyrs who are put to death now in Muslim and atheistic countries. I guess we even have to consider Jesus and the suffering He went through for us.

When we think of joy we usually equate it with happiness. When we do this we do Joy a disservice.

fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)

Joy here is much more than happiness. Happiness comes and goes with the emotional tide as it were. Joy when placed in Christ is rock solid. This is how we can go through trials and tribulations and still speak of the Peace and Joy that only Christ can bring. Yes Paul really found joy because his Joy was not in the situation but in Christ. Yes that promise and hope can be inviting especially if the seeker sees it displayed in a disciples life. It has been said that there are 5 Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the Christian. Unfortunately for many the Christian is the only Gospel that is read and as such the unbeliever never reads the other 4……

I just wonder if we, as christians, aren't "creating" the threat instead of offering a hand I’m not sure what you mean here.

I'm not sure what you mean here.........

[Pastor Michelle]

SO, I've been out of touch for a few days - sorry! but if I follow this thread correctly, I think the heart of the last few posts has to do with how we sometimes act like the pharisees and sadducees. We often want to keep Jesus for ourselves - so we make him out to be demanding and sometimes even harsh. Perhaps this is how we are 'creating' the threat - as Chris said - but in reality - if we follow the Jesus in the Gospel, we will offer grace and love to those around us instead of unrealistic expectations and judgement.

[kingdomseeker]

Most definitely Love is to be the motivating factor in all that we do! Love however requires a spanking every now and then which is a result of a judgment by the parents as to the misdeeds of their child. To bifurcate God's Love from His Holiness as some do today is to reduce His Love to mere emotional platitudes. Many in our culture today do not want a righteous Judge "looking" over their shoulders. They want to be free from that type of a god. (the OT god some say) At bottom we cannot have one without the other and remain true to Him. We see throughout Scriptures that we are to fear and Love God. There is a reason for this. God as judge has our very lives in His hands and God as Savior has taken our punishment upon Himself!! In our fallen nature fear is necessary for respect. We have seen time and again the result of parents who have not instilled in their children a health fear. Many times the children grow up to disrespect the parents and the other authorities in their lives. Unfortunately this very same attitude transfers readily over to the spiritual realm as well.